{"id":990331,"date":"2026-01-07T21:07:22","date_gmt":"2026-01-07T21:07:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.polygon.com\/?p=460843"},"modified":"2026-01-07T21:07:22","modified_gmt":"2026-01-07T21:07:22","slug":"joker-folie-a-deux-cant-stop-contradicting-itself","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/joker-folie-a-deux-cant-stop-contradicting-itself\/","title":{"rendered":"Joker: Folie \u00e0 Deux can\u2019t stop contradicting itself"},"content":{"rendered":"<figure> <img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"Joaquin Phoenix as Arthur Fleck in Joker: Folie \u00e0 Deux. He leans back, mouth open in a laugh or scream, backlit by a dingy, sunny window.\" data-caption=\"\" data-portal-copyright=\"Photo: Niko Tavernise\/Warner Bros. Pictures\" data-has-syndication-rights=\"1\" src=\"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/joker-folie-a-deux-cant-stop-contradicting-itself.jpg\" \/><figcaption><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p class=\"has-drop-cap has-text-align-none\">The mythology of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.polygon.com\/reviews\/2019\/10\/3\/20893138\/joker-review-joaquin-phoenix-robert-de-niro-todd-phillips\">2019\u2019s <em>Joker<\/em><\/a> is that writer-director Todd Phillips really just wanted to make a dark character study in \u201970s-style film realism, \u00e0 la Martin Scorsese\u2019s 1982 feature <em>The King of Comedy<\/em>. The kind of film, he said, that <a href=\"https:\/\/www.latimes.com\/entertainment-arts\/movies\/story\/2019-08-27\/joker-todd-phillips-joaquin-phoenix\">couldn\u2019t be made in the modern studio system<\/a>. The \u201ccomic book\u201d of it all was a means to an end, and the fact that the Joker had never had a definitive origin story meant Phillips had more freedom to construct his own take.&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\">But he and co-writer Scott Silver still couldn\u2019t entirely steer clear of Batman lore or comic book movie trappings: The first <em>Joker <\/em>features an extended subplot teasing that hapless protagonist Arthur Fleck (Joaquin Phoenix) might be Bruce Wayne\u2019s secret half-brother, and there\u2019s a Batman origin story sewn straight into the movie\u2019s climax. Like its predecessor, the sequel, <em>Joker: Folie \u00e0 Deux<\/em> \u2014 which sees Phoenix reprising his role as Arthur Fleck\/Joker, and Lady Gaga joining as Harleen Quinzel \u2014 is full of contradictions, playing fast and loose with Fleck\u2019s nature, the question of who\u2019s to blame for his deeds, and the reality of the story itself.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\">And just as they were with <em>Joker<\/em>, Phillips and Silver are still a little too in love with their own premise, leaving whatever message <em>Folie \u00e0 Deux<\/em> might want to deliver obscured.&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\"><em>Folie \u00e0 Deux<\/em> picks up with Arthur in Gotham City (here played by a fictionalized 1970s New York), at the mercy of abusive guards in Arkham Asylum\u2019s maximum security ward, as he awaits trial for the murders he committed in the first movie. Lady Gaga plays fellow inmate and Joker fangirl Lee, whose affections encourage him to push back when his lawyer, Maryanne (Catherine \u200b\u200bKeener), pushes him toward an insanity plea. A lot of what follows plays out in musical sequences in varying states of diegesis, turning <em>Folie \u00e0 Deux<\/em> into a jukebox musical that taps into Warner Bros.\u2019 library of musicals, among other song sources.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\">From there, Phillips and Silver present a bewildering slew of conflicting ideas: The defense attorney and the pushy psychiatrist working with her, who say Fleck has a split personality and is not in control of his faculties \u2014 they don\u2019t understand him. But district attorney Harvey Dent (Harry Lawtey), his chosen psychiatrist, and the TV reporter (Steve Coogan) who argue that Arthur is sane \u2014 they\u2019re absolute tools. But <em>also<\/em>, the people who have adopted \u201cthe Joker\u201d as the figurehead of a revolution-ish movement are shallow thrillseekers projecting their own hypocrisy onto him.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/joker-folie-a-deux-cant-stop-contradicting-itself-1.jpg\" alt=\"Arthur Fleck (Joaquin Phoenix) and a TV interviewer (Steve Coogan) sit in a barren brick cell in Arkham Asylum, facing each other for an interview, as others watch them on monitors in Joker: Folie \u00e0 Deux\" title=\"Arthur Fleck (Joaquin Phoenix) and a TV interviewer (Steve Coogan) sit in a barren brick cell in Arkham Asylum, facing each other for an interview, as others watch them on monitors in Joker: Folie \u00e0 Deux\" data-has-syndication-rights=\"1\" data-caption=\"\" data-portal-copyright=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\">Fleck is the hero, he\u2019s cool, he really Gets It, Man. Also, he\u2019s pathetic and gross and bad at sex. He\u2019s bullied by everyone around him and can\u2019t defend himself, so we should be afraid for him \u2014 but also, we should be afraid for anyone left alone in a room with him, because he\u2019s so unpredictable. He was abandoned by a callous society, the cause of his antisocial behavior; he just needs help and sympathy. Also, he\u2019s killed multiple people in cold blood and feels little remorse about that. The way Arkham treats its high-security patients is inexcusable; these people are victims who need real help. But also, some of them are totally cracked, madhouse killers, just like in your favorite slasher movies.<\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\">There are great stories that ask questions without answering them \u2014 including many works of pop cinema. However, <em>Folie \u00e0 Deux<\/em>\u2019s messaging doesn\u2019t come off as artfully ambiguous, just so mixed that it could support any interpretation. If Phillips has a message he\u2019s trying to convey, it might be a repudiation of the fans who took <em>Joker<\/em>\u2019s protagonist as a rousing nihilistic icon. But he undercuts himself there, too.&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\">Once again, his camera romanticizes Fleck\u2019s momentary emotional vulnerabilities, and takes the same relish in presenting Phoenix\u2019s spooky movements, unsettling laughter, and capacity for violence as it did in <em>Joker<\/em>. And by avoiding any specificity about what Fleck\u2019s Joker-pilled supporters (the on-screen ones, at least) actually <em>want<\/em> \u2014 the class warfare trappings they espoused in <em>Joker<\/em> are notably absent here \u2014 Phillips and Silver give off-screen fans plenty of space to discard the bits of these movies that don\u2019t fit with their conceptions, and embrace the ones that do.&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\">Even <em>Folie \u00e0 Deux<\/em>\u2019s framing of its internal reality is muddy. The musical numbers are fantasy sequences, except when characters are actually singing, except that sometimes it\u2019s <em>also<\/em> left ambiguous. Phillips and Silver aimed to script a mature movie examining a complex character, and not just another phoned-in comic book punch-fest \u2014 but they also couldn\u2019t resist slapping Harvey Dent in here as the crusading district attorney, and making sure he gets his origin story before the credits roll. (Not to mention wedging another supervillain \u201ccameo\u201d into the final scene.)&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-none\">The truth, whether or not Phillips would want to admit it, is that his rapt framing of Phoenix\u2019s performance, his dedicated homage to \u201970s grit and \u201960s musical fantasy, the smugness of a script that omits the punchline from a knock-knock joke and submits that as smart character commentary \u2014 these things are not so distant from the rule-of-cool, Easter-egg-hiding, smug-quip-dropping world of comic book cinema as he would like to imagine. <em>Joker <\/em>and <em>Folie \u00e0 Deux<\/em> are no less indulgent than any other films resting on the legacy of generations of work-for-hire comics artists whose output currently falls under the ownership of the Warner Bros. Discovery conglomerate. Phillips just wants you to think it is.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.polygon.com\/movies\/460843\/joker-2-review-folie-a-deux\">Source<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The mythology of 2019\u2019s Joker is that writer-director Todd Phillips really just wanted to make a dark character study in \u201970s-style film realism, \u00e0 la Martin Scorsese\u2019s 1982 feature The King of Comedy. The kind of film, he said, that couldn\u2019t be made in the modern studio system. The \u201ccomic book\u201d of it all was a means to an end, and the fact that the Joker had never had a definitive origin story meant Phillips had more freedom to construct his own take.&nbsp; But he and co-writer Scott Silver still couldn\u2019t entirely steer clear of Batman lore or comic book movie trappings: The first Joker features an extended subplot teasing that hapless protagonist Arthur Fleck (Joaquin Phoenix) might be Bruce Wayne\u2019s secret half-brother, and there\u2019s&hellip;<\/p>\n<p class=\"excerpt-more\"><a class=\"blog-excerpt button\" href=\"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/joker-folie-a-deux-cant-stop-contradicting-itself\/\">Read More&#8230;<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":990332,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[10],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-990331","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-polygon"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Joker: Folie \u00e0 Deux can\u2019t stop contradicting itself | Arcader News<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The mythology of 2019\u2019s Joker is that writer-director Todd Phillips really just wanted to make a dark character study in \u201970s-style film realism, \u00e0 la\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" 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