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A look inside the Naughty Dog offices <\/article>\nDo you have any desire to go towards lighter fare or return to your roots, to those kid-friendly games?<\/strong> Neil Druckmann:<\/em> Once we finish a project, we spend quite a bit of time entertaining all sorts of different directions, whether it\u2019s going to be something new or if we\u2019re going back to some old franchise. We really take our time with it, and if you were to see our folders of concept art you\u2019d see unused concepts that are all over the gamut. Then we look at everything and we ask ourselves what are we excited by? What\u2019s something that\u2019s going to challenge us and push us, and push the medium as far as games that can be? Because that inspiration is so important to carry through years of production.<\/p>\n A lot of fans have this perception of Naughty Dog as this crown jewel in Sony\u2019s cap, like the best of the best in the development world. Do you see yourselves that way?<\/strong> Neil Druckmann:<\/em> To steal a term from someone, our brand is excellence and people come to Naughty Dog to achieve excellence and we give ourselves the pressure of living up to the kinds of games people expect from us.<\/p>\n You\u2019ve said that you look up to studios like Insomniac, Guerrilla Games, and Sony Santa Monica. What specifically do you see them doing that inspires you?<\/strong> Evan Wells:<\/em> You always come out with something that you could do better, even if it\u2019s not something you adopt directly. So many times you\u2019re brainstorming something in the office with your colleagues, and you look at something like, \u201cYeah, that\u2019s just gonna be too hard to implement. We can\u2019t go down that road.\u201d And then you go talk to another studio, and you see that they\u2019ve done that very thing or something very similar and you\u2019re like, \u201cOh my God!\u201d And then they talk about how it\u2019s paid off, and you\u2019re instantly inspired.<\/p>\n Do you have any specific examples of that?<\/strong> Neil Druckmann:<\/em> Another thing that comes to mind when we were talking to Sucker Punch is that we were talking about mo-capping a horse for The Last of Us Part II, and we were looking for ways to do it, and they were like, \u201cOh, we\u2019re about to do the same thing [for Ghost of Tsushima]. Let\u2019s double up our efforts.\u201d Motion capture for a big animal is a big deal, and we were able to just approach the problem together and use similar data, sometimes the same data for both games.<\/p>\n I wouldn\u2019t have even thought about mo-capping a horse. That\u2019s crazy that you did that.<\/strong> Naughty Dog has such a proven track record, but that hasn\u2019t come without cost. Over the years, you\u2019ve come under fire for studio crunch. Could you speak to your personal experience with crunch and how that\u2019s affected the studio?<\/strong> Neil Druckmann:<\/em> We have so many talented people that are good at solving problems, whether they\u2019re creative or technical. Let me go back to The Last of Us Part II; some pillars that were important to us were diversity, diversity in the people we hire and the characters that we have in our game as well as accessibility and how do we make our games more accessible. Likewise, we\u2019re looking at quality of life for preventing burnout, to employ the brain power we have in our studio, and we started coming up with working groups to talk about the areas in the studio where we can improve. We worked a particular way when we\u2019re 40 people, now we have to evolve as we keep growing.<\/p>\n Evan Wells:<\/em> Something else that we\u2019re really focused on is increasing the level of management at the studio. We have more directors and more leads, all with the end goal of giving the entire team more opportunities to provide feedback and check in on their well-being.<\/p>\n Neil Druckmann:<\/em> Everybody has a different definition of what crunch means. And I guess for us, we think of it as, how do we look out for the well-being of our colleagues and everyone that works at Naughty Dog, which is some combination of how many hours you work and how much stress you\u2019re feeling, whether that\u2019s something that\u2019s going on in the office or at home. We find that there is no one solution that fits everybody. Everybody has a unique situation we might need to address.<\/p>\n One of the things that the industry has talked about as a possible solution is unionization. Do you have thoughts on unionization?<\/strong> Neil Druckmann:<\/em> We\u2019ve tried stuff, like Evan is describing, in the past where we\u2019ve said, \u201cOkay, no working past this hour,\u201d or, \u201cIt\u2019s mandatory that no one can work on Sunday,\u201d and they\u2019re always a lot of corner cases of someone saying, \u201cWell, I couldn\u2019t work on Friday because I had to be with my kids. It\u2019s actually more convenient for me to come in on Sunday.\u201d When you try to have a silver bullet, like one solution, you\u2019re always leaving someone behind. That\u2019s why we feel like we need multiple solutions. We have to approach this from multiple angles.<\/p>\n You talked about ensuring that the workplace is a fun environment. What does that look like?<\/strong> Some companies seem to be moving away from the big, story-driven single-player games. For example, Ubisoft recently announced that it would be developing more long-tail, free-to-play games. Do you feel that story-driven, single-player games are still Naughty Dog\u2019s future?<\/strong> Neil Druckmann:<\/em> And again, going back to who Sony is, there has never been a mandate like, \u201cOh, this is where we see the winds shifting. Can you start making these kind of games instead?\u201d We know just as they know that when you work on something you\u2019re excited by, something you\u2019re passionate by, you\u2019re going to do great work.<\/p>\n You basically put a bow on the Uncharted series, but you still have that The Last of Us multiplayer project in the works. Do you want to continue to work on the IP you\u2019ve established or do you have a desire to create new properties at this point?<\/strong> The Last of Us Part II was a big, sprawling project and it was largely well-received, but a certain segment was very critical of various aspects of the game. How did you, as a studio, deal with that?<\/strong> Sounds like you\u2019re saying that some of the biggest fans of Naughty Dog are at Naughty Dog?<\/strong> This article originally appeared in Issue 337<\/a> of Game Informer.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/p>\n
\nEvan Wells:<\/em> If we had endless resources and time it would be super fun to do that. You look at what Insomniac is doing with Ratchet and Clank and it\u2019s exciting. It\u2019s great to see that stuff. We\u2019re just limited with time, you know, I\u2019m 48 years-old and how many more games do you get to make, so you got to pick and choose.<\/p>\n
\nEvan Wells:<\/em> That\u2019s a big question. We just try to make games that excite us. We try to make games that are going to be fun to play and received well by our fans, and rewarding for the team to create. We\u2019re not really driven by any pressure from Sony to do anything in particular.<\/p>\n
\nNeil Druckmann:<\/em> It might be some particular tech like what Guerrilla was able to achieve with how dense their foliage is. We looked at that, and we talked to them about that.<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/naughty-by-nature-naughty-dog-leadership-reflects-on-the-studios-history-2.jpg\")
The Last of Us Part II concept art <\/article>\n
\nEvan Wells:<\/em> Very early on in The Last of Us Part II development, we knew that it was taking places in Seattle, and we knew that Sucker Punch had completely modeled Seattle for Infamous Second Son. We said, \u201cWe\u2019re not going to use the assets in the game, but we want to quickly feel out the space, so can we get access to those assets?\u201d And they said, \u201cSure,\u201d and sent it over. We were able to quickly rough out the environment. That was a huge help.<\/p>\n
\nNeil Druckmann:<\/em> We also mo-capped dogs, and then there\u2019s a sheep sequence in The Last of Us Part II, and that\u2019s actually dogs acting like sheep.<\/p>\n
\nEvan Wells:<\/em> I have definitely personally worked very hard over the years. I think some of that has helped me get to where I am in my career. As a studio, we\u2019ve all worked hard together, and we are working very hard on every project to find the right balance, just like we do in all of our technical aspects of creating a game. We have post mortems and we look at how the animation went and we look at how the design went and we dig really deep into all the things that could have been better and the things we got right. We do the same thing with production. We look at how the whole game was created, and where we can make improvements and how we can strike the right balance between giving people the opportunity to \u2013 as I mentioned earlier \u2013 leave their mark on the industry and advance their craft in ways that have never been achieved, but also find space along that spectrum.<\/p>\n
\nEvan Wells:<\/em> I haven\u2019t put a lot of thought into that. I don\u2019t know if that would be a solution for crunch. To Neil\u2019s point about making sure that everybody is able to work as hard or as little as they want, we\u2019ve got to create an environment that allows that. If we had some sort of restriction where when the clock strikes 40 hours the servers shut down and you can\u2019t work anymore, that would frustrate people to no end. There are people who really want to put in that extra polish on their own volition, and they would feel handcuffed.<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/08\/naughty-by-nature-naughty-dog-leadership-reflects-on-the-studios-history-3.jpg\")
A Naughty Dog family shot <\/article>\n
\nNeil Druckmann:<\/em> We make video games, right? So many of us have dreamed about doing this when we were kids and sometimes you\u2019re in it so long you forget to appreciate it. For me it\u2019s just a constant reminder that the creative process, the putting the thing together, should be fun in itself. That\u2019s about how do you get feedback? How do you realign someone that was working on [an] idea that might not work out, but still inspire them to come back to the vision? There\u2019s an art to that.<\/p>\n
\nEvan Wells:<\/em> Absolutely. Yeah, and it\u2019s sort of in our DNA to tell these stories. I think that\u2019s going to continue. Single-player experiences are near and dear to us. It\u2019s what has attracted a lot of people to Naughty Dog, and that\u2019s what inspires them, so I think we\u2019re going to keep at it as long as we can.<\/p>\n
\nEvan Wells:<\/em> I think the easy answer is: both. I think there\u2019s excitement to develop new IP, but there is still a ton of love for Uncharted and The Last of Us, and I think you\u2019ll see both kinds of projects from us in the future.<\/p>\n
\nNeil Druckmann:<\/em> When we started making The Last of Us Part II, specifically, we knew we were making something that would be controversial for part of the fanbase. That\u2019s not the reason to make it, we made it despite that. Our intention is not to upset people or alienate people, our intention is to tell a story that\u2019s meaningful to us that we think has some value behind it, and is worth spending years of our time making. When we had the leaks, before anybody had a chance to play it, that\u2019s when we got a ton of negativity, and we started questioning, \u201cIs this game going to be successful at all?\u201d We didn\u2019t even know how much the leak really hurt us. That was really the low point for me. And it helped that some people in the studio \u2013 like [character art director] Ashley Swidowski reached out to me and said, \u201cI just want you to know that no matter what happens, I am proud of this game. It\u2019s my favorite game I\u2019ve worked on, and you don\u2019t understand how much this means to me.\u201d More than anything, that\u2019s the thing that makes me proud. Sometimes I get asked, \u201cDo you get nervous for interviews or for doing a presentation at E3?\u201d And, I\u2019m an introvert and there is some level of nervousness, but I never get more nervous than when I have to speak in front of all of Naughty Dog, because there\u2019s nobody that Evan and I want to make more proud than everybody else who works on the game, because they put so much of themselves into the game. They\u2019re so excited and they\u2019re so passionate about what they\u2019re making. Those are the people I want to make proud more than anything else. If some percentage of the studio didn\u2019t like the game that would just bum me out beyond repair. As far as people on the outside, I\u2019m like, \u201cThat\u2019s unfortunate [you didn\u2019t like The Last of Us Part II], but I stand by the game we made.\u201d<\/p>\n
\nNeil Druckmann:<\/em> I would say that the biggest fans and the biggest critics are within Naughty Dog, and that\u2019s what keeps us as good as we are.<\/p>\n
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