{"id":1125306,"date":"2026-02-02T02:04:42","date_gmt":"2026-02-02T02:04:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.polygon.com\/?p=521436"},"modified":"2026-02-02T02:04:42","modified_gmt":"2026-02-02T02:04:42","slug":"does-art-need-to-be-fixed","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/","title":{"rendered":"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019?"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"\"
<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

In 2012, <\/em>Roger Ebert wrote<\/em><\/a>, \u201cI remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art.\u201d The question of what is or isn\u2019t art feels tired in 2025, but the ever-shifting defenses of <\/em>why<\/em><\/strong> can still be intriguing. In this interview excerpt, game designer Sam Barlow and podcaster Justin McElroy explore Ebert\u2019s reasoning for saying that video games couldn\u2019t be art: the fact that video games are, to some degree, mutable. <\/em><\/p>\n

This interview was done in September 2024 as part of the release of <\/em>our documentary <\/em>The Great Game: The Making of Spycraft<\/a>, about one of the most ambitious FMV games of the \u201990s. You can watch the full interview above.<\/em><\/p>\n

Sam Barlow: <\/strong>There was a period where, if I had a free evening and my family were out or something, and I got to choose what was on TV, I\u2019d be like, OK, Daddy\u2019s going to watch something cool on the television<\/em>. And I would sit down, and 45 minutes later, I\u2019m still paging through Netflix, looking at the stuff, seeing the algorithmic choices. So they\u2019ve done a really good job of making the \u201cbrowsing the shelf\u201d experience feel very interactive. It\u2019s personalized, right? I get different shows pushed to me. Not only do I get different shows, I get different thumbnails. The funny thing of, like \u2014 you get the stuff, right, where it\u2019s like, the thumbnail says Godfather<\/em>, and then it\u2019s a picture of one of the female characters from The Godfather<\/em> that doesn\u2019t even have a speaking line, because the algorithm has decided, Oh, you like things with women in them; we need to push that on you<\/em>.<\/p>\n

So they’ve done all that stuff,\u00a0and obviously the reason that movies and television are fixed<\/a> \u2014 it\u2019s not 100% because that\u2019s how they work; it\u2019s partly technology. If you were going to distribute a movie, it needed to be printed, and you needed a single master copy that was going to be printed several times, and then put in a van and driven to a movie theater, and then you\u2019d watch it. And the structure, it was such that, well, people need to sit in a room, and the length of a movie\u2019s kind of baked around, How many screenings can we get in the day? What\u2019s the size of the human bladder? How uncomfortable do I feel if I\u2019m sat in a chair for too long?<\/em>\u00a0<\/p>\n

But now that everything we\u2019re watching is being streamed directly to us, stored on a computer somewhere, things don\u2019t have to be that way. [\u2026] I\u2019m free-associating here, but the famous line that we got from Roger Ebert of why video games couldn\u2019t be art was this idea that art is fixed, and is an authorial choice \u2014 and if you can change the ending, etc., it\u2019s not art, right, was his reading of what a video game is.<\/p>\n

My immediate dismissal of that is: Come on, Roger, you know how movies are made! You know that when Spielberg wrote this script, the ending was different, and you know that this scene wasn\u2019t in the original script. And then when they went and filmed it, the actor showed up and improvised and tweaked it. And then you know that when they got to the editing room, decisions were made. You know that a modern, expensive movie is screened to several audiences, different cuts, and then they go and make changes. There is a fluidity in the form that \u2014 it already exists in the process. And we know that if you\u2019re making a $200 million Marvel movie, you have to hit the \u201cfour-quadrant\u201d audience; you\u2019ve got to please everybody. So you\u2019re not going to kill the dog. […] There is a conceit that if this medium was delivered one-to-one, to me as an individual, even without interactivity there would be a way of it being more calibrated.\u00a0<\/p>\n

When I was doing Telling Lies<\/em>, Breaking Bad<\/em> was the big show. And at the time, there was this crazy discourse around the fact that, here was a show which generally was going with the opinion that Walter White was not the best dude. And it did have its cake and eat it a little bit. But then you had the weird Breaking Bad<\/em> fanboys who were just like, \u201cWalter White rocks!!! He\u2019s so cool! He\u2019s the man who knocks!\u201d And you had the weird thing where they were hating on the character of Skyler, saying, \u201cShe sucks! She\u2019s a bad character! Ugh, we hate her!\u201d That is kind of a product of how TV shows work. You need an A character and you need a B character, and the B character is there to provide the friction; the A character is the one whose story we\u2019re connected to.<\/p>\n

So if we were cutting a version of Breaking Bad<\/em> for an individual audience member, and you wanted them to get the point they were missing, you could cut a version which tried to make it clear to this other audience that Walter White was a bad guy. [\u2026] All of these things are impossible to do if you\u2019re making a single, fixed piece of network television. But if you knew who you were addressing, and you had a bit more freedom because of the way that digital works, you could do something interesting there. And so I would love to have more fluidity to how we consume our digital video. I think that’s a thing that would be really interesting \u2014 have things that lean into that subjectivity.<\/p>\n

This is an example I always use that was really interesting to see. [\u2026] When they showed the movie The Notebook<\/em> [\u2026] on Netflix in Europe, they put a cut of the movie that no one realized even existed, live on the service. And you had all these people sort of live-tweeting watching it who were all fans of The Notebook<\/em> and \u2014 I\u2019ve never actually seen The Notebook<\/em>, but I believe it has a very [\u2026] moving, sad, double-hanky ending. Somehow they had uploaded a cut which actually had a happy ending, and you suddenly had all these people in real time being like, Is this a<\/em> \u2014 oh, what\u2019s the genie movie that doesn\u2019t exist?<\/p>\n

Justin McElroy: <\/strong>Kazaam<\/em>.<\/p>\n

Sam Barlow: <\/strong>Kazaam<\/em>. Yeah, they were like, Is this a <\/em>Kazaam thing? Have I <\/em>Kazaam\u2019d myself? Did I remember a different ending to this movie? Am I hallucinating?<\/em> Am I having a heart attack? What\u2019s happening?<\/em> And you had this really interesting, kind of, visceral reaction based on just the assumption that video is fixed and immutable.<\/p>\n

We\u2019ll be running more excerpts from this conversation between Sam Barlow and Justin McElroy each weekend. Recently, they discussed the usefulness of \u201cFMV\u201d as a label for games<\/a>, and following that, whether watching film can feel more intimate than playing a game<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n

The Great Game: The Making of Spycraft <\/em>recently won<\/em><\/a> the New York Videogame Critics Circle\u2019s New York Game Award for Best Games Journalism. <\/em><\/p>\n

\n

Source<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In 2012, Roger Ebert wrote, \u201cI remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art.\u201d The question of what is or isn\u2019t art feels tired in 2025, but the ever-shifting defenses of why can still be intriguing. In this interview excerpt, game designer Sam Barlow and podcaster Justin McElroy explore Ebert\u2019s reasoning for saying that video games couldn\u2019t be art: the fact that video games are, to some degree, mutable.  This interview was done in September 2024 as part of the release of our documentary The Great Game: The Making of Spycraft, about one of the most ambitious FMV games of the \u201990s. You can watch the full interview above. Sam Barlow: There was a period where, if I had a free evening and…<\/p>\n

Read More…<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":1125307,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[10],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1125306","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-polygon"],"yoast_head":"\nDoes art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019? | Arcader News<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"In 2012, Roger Ebert wrote, \u201cI remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art.\u201d The question of what is or isn\u2019t art feels tired in 2025,\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019? | Arcader News\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In 2012, Roger Ebert wrote, \u201cI remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art.\u201d The question of what is or isn\u2019t art feels tired in 2025,\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Arcade News\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2026-02-02T02:04:42+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"480\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"320\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Arcade News\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Arcade News\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Arcade News\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/8460f5e5076b52fb2369f2f7ce6f2839\"},\"headline\":\"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019?\",\"datePublished\":\"2026-02-02T02:04:42+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":1197,\"commentCount\":0,\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/02\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg\",\"articleSection\":[\"Polygon\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/\",\"name\":\"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019? | Arcader News\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/02\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2026-02-02T02:04:42+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/8460f5e5076b52fb2369f2f7ce6f2839\"},\"description\":\"In 2012, Roger Ebert wrote, \u201cI remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art.\u201d The question of what is or isn\u2019t art feels tired in 2025,\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/02\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2025\\\/02\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg\",\"width\":480,\"height\":320,\"caption\":\"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019?\"},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/\",\"name\":\"Arcade News\",\"description\":\"Free Arcade News from the Best Online Sources\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/8460f5e5076b52fb2369f2f7ce6f2839\",\"name\":\"Arcade News\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/3fea48a614d86edd987bc7bb25f4707c69546d4b1f78ad4aa20b26316bad1f9d?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/3fea48a614d86edd987bc7bb25f4707c69546d4b1f78ad4aa20b26316bad1f9d?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/3fea48a614d86edd987bc7bb25f4707c69546d4b1f78ad4aa20b26316bad1f9d?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Arcade News\"},\"sameAs\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/cricketgames.tv\"],\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/arcader.org\\\/news\\\/author\\\/arcade-news\\\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019? | Arcader News","description":"In 2012, Roger Ebert wrote, \u201cI remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art.\u201d The question of what is or isn\u2019t art feels tired in 2025,","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019? | Arcader News","og_description":"In 2012, Roger Ebert wrote, \u201cI remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art.\u201d The question of what is or isn\u2019t art feels tired in 2025,","og_url":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/","og_site_name":"Arcade News","article_published_time":"2026-02-02T02:04:42+00:00","og_image":[{"width":480,"height":320,"url":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Arcade News","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Arcade News","Est. reading time":"6 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/"},"author":{"name":"Arcade News","@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/#\/schema\/person\/8460f5e5076b52fb2369f2f7ce6f2839"},"headline":"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019?","datePublished":"2026-02-02T02:04:42+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/"},"wordCount":1197,"commentCount":0,"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg","articleSection":["Polygon"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/","url":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/","name":"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019? | Arcader News","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg","datePublished":"2026-02-02T02:04:42+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/#\/schema\/person\/8460f5e5076b52fb2369f2f7ce6f2839"},"description":"In 2012, Roger Ebert wrote, \u201cI remain convinced that in principle, video games cannot be art.\u201d The question of what is or isn\u2019t art feels tired in 2025,","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/02\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed.jpg","width":480,"height":320,"caption":"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019?"},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/does-art-need-to-be-fixed\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Does art need to be \u2018fixed\u2019?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/#website","url":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/","name":"Arcade News","description":"Free Arcade News from the Best Online Sources","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/#\/schema\/person\/8460f5e5076b52fb2369f2f7ce6f2839","name":"Arcade News","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3fea48a614d86edd987bc7bb25f4707c69546d4b1f78ad4aa20b26316bad1f9d?s=96&d=mm&r=g","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3fea48a614d86edd987bc7bb25f4707c69546d4b1f78ad4aa20b26316bad1f9d?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3fea48a614d86edd987bc7bb25f4707c69546d4b1f78ad4aa20b26316bad1f9d?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Arcade News"},"sameAs":["https:\/\/cricketgames.tv"],"url":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/author\/arcade-news\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1125306","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1125306"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1125306\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1483111,"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1125306\/revisions\/1483111"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/1125307"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1125306"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1125306"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/arcader.org\/news\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1125306"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}